Black Monday could be a massacre this year

[rhickok1109]

As a Packer fan, I'm wondering about Philbin. If they beat the Lions, they will have gone 3-1 under his leadership. I wonder if that might persuade Mark Murphy that he's the right man for the job.

I'd rather see them move on to someone new...but I'm wondering...

I don't think Philbin has a chance. The three wins (if) are all against crappy teams, two at home. The team did not look all that great against the Jets. I don't think Philbin is saleable to the fanbase going into next year.

I suspect (and hope) you're right.

[sluggermatt15]

I don't think there's any way Mike Tomlin is let go. Even if the Steelers lose out, they would be 8-7-1, which is a non-losing season. Tomlin would still never had a losing campaign. The fans have been crying about Tomlin for years, that's just what they do. I don't think they appreciate the winning, maybe they would if the Steelers turned into an annual sub-.500 team.

If this team loses out, and they either miss the playoffs or go out in round 1, there is no doubt that Tomlin should be gone. The Steelers have been successful in spite of him, not because of him. Someone on TV said (I think it was Carolina WR Steve Smith) that Tomlin should keep his job because he has led the Steelers to the SB. That was eight years ago. This is a "what have you done for me lately" league.

I know that the Rooneys want stability (this is a trend that probably started with Noll). However, Noll earned longer grace periods. He won four SB's. Tomlin didn't, and Cowher didn't, either (Cowher was in Pittsburgh longer than he should have been. He should have been let go around 1999).

I'm not defending Mike Tomlin, but here are the facts.

Tomlin has averaged about 10 wins per season in his 10+ years. The Steelers have won 6 AFC North titles under Tomlin and made the playoffs 8 times. Who are you going to get to better that?

The Steelers have lost a lot of games against inferior competition under Tomlin. Some are Tomlin's fault, some aren't. I don't think the losses to Denver, Oakland, and the tie to the Browns this year are his fault. The team just flops in such games.

[JuggernautJ]

Tomlin has averaged about 10 wins per season in his 10+ years. The Steelers have won 6 AFC North titles under Tomlin and made the playoffs 8 times. Who are you going to get to better that?

Mike McCarthy?

[Rupert Patrick]

Tomlin has averaged about 10 wins per season in his 10+ years. The Steelers have won 6 AFC North titles under Tomlin and made the playoffs 8 times. Who are you going to get to better that?

Mike McCarthy?

The Packers were also on the verge of back-to-back losing seasons for the first time since 1990-91. The Steelers have only had one losing season in the 21st century (2003) and that was during the Cowher era, and they have not fired a head coach in 50 years.

[sluggermatt15]

Tomlin has averaged about 10 wins per season in his 10+ years. The Steelers have won 6 AFC North titles under Tomlin and made the playoffs 8 times. Who are you going to get to better that?

Mike McCarthy?

It might be a good fit. McCarthy is a Pittsburgh native. He calls the plays. The Steelers have a great offense. I think the problem this season has been the defense. They have not stepped up in the critical losses.

Rupert Patrick is right, the Packers went 7-9 in 2017 and will have a losing record this year. McCarthy was 4-7-1 when he was fired.

[74_75_78_79_]

Again, I'm not on the 'Tomlin-must-go' bus. As much as anyone should want their team to win championships and not just make playoffs, there's no overlooking Tomlin's no losing seasons as far in his, now, 12 seasons. He, like Cowher late-'98-thru-early-'00, went through a little rut - back to back 8-8s being the case. Then Steelers became a playoff-regular again. The D has been the liability. Even before Shazier went out, they were already a bit suspect. They got playmakers, things have got to come around again. I won't blame Tomlin though in the meantime. You can say that Cowher didn't win one until Big Ben, but barring the likes of '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs, how many SB-winners in history have won because they had an elite QB? Just about every one.


McCarthy? Nothing against him (a SB-winner himself as well as a playoff-regular most of his time w GB), and did think GB should have waited until the very end of the season to analyze the situation, but in the hypothetical event of, say, Tomlin resigning end of this year, I'd rather not. The last four HCs Steelers hired in the past 50+years (Austin included) was an outsider who was assistant on an established contender given his first shot as a HC. That's the formula I think Steelers should apply again whenever that time does come to choose Tomlin's successor.

[sheajets]

Time finally ran out on Marvin Lewis. I always suspected he would find a way to survive. Wayne Fontes was sort of like that too. But even he couldn't keep it going as long as Lewis did.

The Cinci job was not an easy one. They're a very cheap franchise, always looking to bring in low cost but extremely talented malcontent head cases that other teams don't think are worth the risk. That couldn't have been an easy locker room to command for Lewis

[Citizen]

As a Packer fan, I'm wondering about Philbin. If they beat the Lions, they will have gone 3-1 under his leadership. I wonder if that might persuade Mark Murphy that he's the right man for the job.

I'd rather see them move on to someone new...but I'm wondering...

Philbin's players quit on him, just as McCarthy's guys did against Arizona last month. This late in the season, the gulf between teams that care and teams that don't care is huge and obvious. The Packers did not care yesterday, hence 31-0.

[Throwin_Samoan]

Gruden had his mandate when the Fourth Stooge hired him: screw Oakland, we're building for Vegas.

I think the record is 11 coaching changes due to firing or resigning, in 2008.

If you're talking about the immediate aftermath of a season, 2008 had Mangini, Marinelli and Shanahan dumped right away and Holmgren retired.

Within the next couple of weeks, Gruden and Edwards would be fired and Dungy would retire. That's seven.

The Browns waited a bit before they fired Romeo Crennel, that's eight.

Scott Linehan had been fired during the 2008 season, that's nine. Lane Kiffin had been fired four games into 2008, but Tom Cable got that gig and kept it until 2010. Mike Nolan had been fired 7 games into 2008, but Mike Singletary got that gig (I believe first as interim and then full-time, can't remember), and if you counted him, that would be 10.

Did I miss anybody? (And, yes, I realize those are all changes from one year to the next, I'm not being critical, just thinking out loud and adding context, since the original thread idea is about Black Monday in particular.)

The one-day record, near as I can see, is seven, six years ago today (12/31/2012): Romeo Crennel by Kansas City, Pat Shurmur by Cleveland, Chan Gailey by Buffalo, Norv Turner by San Diego, Ken Whisenhunt by Arizona, Lovie Smith by Chicago and Andy Reid by Philadelphia. Then Mike Mularkey was fired by Jacksonville on 1/10 and Steve Spagnuolo was fired by St. Louis on 1/24, making it nine in short order.

So far there have been six in the immediate aftermath and two prior.

You'd think anyone else who was going to pull the trigger would do it sooner rather than later.

[Jeremy Crowhurst]

Gruden had his mandate when the Fourth Stooge hired him: screw Oakland, we're building for Vegas.

I think the record is 11 coaching changes due to firing or resigning, in 2008.

If you're talking about the immediate aftermath of a season, 2008 had Mangini, Marinelli and Shanahan dumped right away and Holmgren retired.

Within the next couple of weeks, Gruden and Edwards would be fired and Dungy would retire. That's seven.

The Browns waited a bit before they fired Romeo Crennel, that's eight.

Scott Linehan had been fired during the 2008 season, that's nine. Lane Kiffin had been fired four games into 2008, but Tom Cable got that gig and kept it until 2010. Mike Nolan had been fired 7 games into 2008, but Mike Singletary got that gig (I believe first as interim and then full-time, can't remember), and if you counted him, that would be 10.

Did I miss anybody? (And, yes, I realize those are all changes from one year to the next, I'm not being critical, just thinking out loud and adding context, since the original thread idea is about Black Monday in particular.)

The one-day record, near as I can see, is seven, six years ago today (12/31/2012): Romeo Crennel by Kansas City, Pat Shurmur by Cleveland, Chan Gailey by Buffalo, Norv Turner by San Diego, Ken Whisenhunt by Arizona, Lovie Smith by Chicago and Andy Reid by Philadelphia. Then Mike Mularkey was fired by Jacksonville on 1/10 and Steve Spagnuolo was fired by St. Louis on 1/24, making it nine in short order.

So far there have been six in the immediate aftermath and two prior.

You'd think anyone else who was going to pull the trigger would do it sooner rather than later.

You didn't miss anyone, you just miscounted - Crennel was eight, then Linehan, Kiffin, and Nolan make eleven.

I think Spagnolo was fired the year before, after the 2011 season.

Totally agree about firing early rather than late. The Chargers fired Schottenheimer in February, and ended up with the worst possible replacement: a coach who was fine. Not good, just "fine". The kind of coach that you ought to know will win enough games that you won't be able to replace him after a year or two. So instead they flushed Philip Rivers' seven prime years down the toilet.