Professional Football Researchers Association Forum
PFRA is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the history of professional football. Formed in 1979, PFRA members include many of the game's foremost historians and writers.
SixtiesFan wrote:
Does Carroll Rosenbloom have a chance to be in the HOF as a contributor?
He's been written about on th Talk of Fame Network and Gosselin and Borges are on the committee, I think. So, once they get Kraft in, who else are they going to put in from current owners? Snyder? Doubt it. Lurie? To be honest I don't know how many committees each of them served on so I don't know what their "qualifications" are.
Three contributors every two years will clear the decks fairly fast. I think the major names talked about will all get in (including Rosenbloom, Modell, McNally, etc) but then what?
Amy Trask? Just for being female? 3 winning seasons, a less than 40% winning percentage? Seymour Siwoff (who I am for) for creating the statistics that became fantasy football and analytics? Joe Thomas who did great work until screwing the pooch in SF? Georgia Frontiere for the same reasons as Amy Trask? Joe Robbie?
Last edited by JohnTurney on Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sheajets wrote:
I'm certain Harold Ballard must've done some things like that as owner of the leafs. I remember hearing he threw Foster Hewitt's famous broadcasting gondola in the MLG incinerator. Nothing was off limits for him to tarnish or destroy
That sort of thing wouldn't surprise me at all. He owned the CFL's Hamilton Tiger Cats from 1978-1989 but I've never heard of anything similar happening there. When Bob Ackles returned to the B.C. Lions in 2003 he found that much of the club's historical artifacts were missing. I remember seeing some neat stuff on eBay years ago that looked like it must have come from the Lions front office. I suspect those items got ransacked during the early 1990's when Murray Pezim owned the club.
JohnTurney wrote:People are free to disagree. I have my beliefs and reasons and info that have convinced me. DeBartolo, Jones, Bowlen, even Kraft, and others...IMO bought their way in. No big money not slots on Board of Directors. No spot on Board, no separate contributor category. Not special category, no way do they get in.
Yup. Maybe not 100% but close enough to how I see it and in my opinion, how it is.
The committee stuff always gets me, too. Which I've posted about in the past.
It's almost equal to puff pieces about Goodell defending him with hyping up how he's "grown the game", as if he raised it from the depths of an unknown niche sport. Or like when a voter is presenting a player 'in the room' and says a position (that long existed) was created for just for him or that he "changed the game" while proceeding to bring up something that existed before the player was even in the league.
"He created Sunday Night Football!" ... Welp, there you have it, football wasn't played on Sunday's before he came up with it, oh wait. Well it wasn't played in primetime, oh wait. Wasn't played on Sunday nights, oh wait. Well it wasn't NBC SNF and he singlehandedly created NBC, oh wait. Well it was his idea and he went to NBC with the SNF idea, oh wait. Well he singlehandly with no approval or input from anyone else got SNF on NBC, oh wait. And so on ... Even if we want to inaccurately give full credit, whoop-de-doo. Eventually SNF was going to move from cable to network anyway, no one was splitting any atoms on that idea/deal. As with most "he was on the [whatever] committee!" ideas/deals in modern times. Pretty basic business.
I am completely done with caring about contributors and I'm not the only one. I'm just going to completely tune out the arguments for or against these people when I hear it on the radio or on NFL Network. As far as the written word goes, I'll skim it or pass on reading any of it. Why? Because of what you outlined. It is very nebulous as far as what these people did.
JohnTurney wrote:People are free to disagree. I have my beliefs and reasons and info that have convinced me. DeBartolo, Jones, Bowlen, even Kraft, and others...IMO bought their way in. No big money not slots on Board of Directors. No spot on Board, no separate contributor category. Not special category, no way do they get in.
Yup. Maybe not 100% but close enough to how I see it and in my opinion, how it is.
The committee stuff always gets me, too. Which I've posted about in the past.
It's almost equal to puff pieces about Goodell defending him with hyping up how he's "grown the game", as if he raised it from the depths of an unknown niche sport. Or like when a voter is presenting a player 'in the room' and says a position (that long existed) was created for just for him or that he "changed the game" while proceeding to bring up something that existed before the player was even in the league.
"He created Sunday Night Football!" ... Welp, there you have it, football wasn't played on Sunday's before he came up with it, oh wait. Well it wasn't played in primetime, oh wait. Wasn't played on Sunday nights, oh wait. Well it wasn't NBC SNF and he singlehandedly created NBC, oh wait. Well it was his idea and he went to NBC with the SNF idea, oh wait. Well he singlehandly with no approval or input from anyone else got SNF on NBC, oh wait. And so on ... Even if we want to inaccurately give full credit, whoop-de-doo. Eventually SNF was going to move from cable to network anyway, no one was splitting any atoms on that idea/deal. As with most "he was on the [whatever] committee!" ideas/deals in modern times. Pretty basic business.
Or what about inducting Tom Benson (the late New Orleans Saints owner) on the base of:
-The Saints didn't had a winning season before he bought the team.
-He kept the Saints in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, and soon became Super Bowl Champions.
-Most important...he rebuilt old Fawcett Stadium adjacent to the Pro Football Hall of Fame and renamed it.
(I bet Peter KIng and co. already tought of these things for the near future).-
Last edited by Gary Najman on Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JohnTurney wrote:People are free to disagree. I have my beliefs and reasons and info that have convinced me. DeBartolo, Jones, Bowlen, even Kraft, and others...IMO bought their way in. No big money not slots on Board of Directors. No spot on Board, no separate contributor category. Not special category, no way do they get in.
Yup. Maybe not 100% but close enough to how I see it and in my opinion, how it is.
The committee stuff always gets me, too. Which I've posted about in the past.
It's almost equal to puff pieces about Goodell defending him with hyping up how he's "grown the game", as if he raised it from the depths of an unknown niche sport. Or like when a voter is presenting a player 'in the room' and says a position (that long existed) was created for just for him or that he "changed the game" while proceeding to bring up something that existed before the player was even in the league.
"He created Sunday Night Football!" ... Welp, there you have it, football wasn't played on Sunday's before he came up with it, oh wait. Well it wasn't played in primetime, oh wait. Wasn't played on Sunday nights, oh wait. Well it wasn't NBC SNF and he singlehandedly created NBC, oh wait. Well it was his idea and he went to NBC with the SNF idea, oh wait. Well he singlehandly with no approval or input from anyone else got SNF on NBC, oh wait. And so on ... Even if we want to inaccurately give full credit, whoop-de-doo. Eventually SNF was going to move from cable to network anyway, no one was splitting any atoms on that idea/deal. As with most "he was on the [whatever] committee!" ideas/deals in modern times. Pretty basic business.
There were Sunday Night Football games at the least since the late 70s. I remember the Cowboys in that game almost every year at Texas Stadium (1980 vs. San Diego, 1981 vs. the L.A. Rams, 1983 vs. the L.A. Raiders, 1984 vs. New Orleans, 1985 at the New York Giants), plus a 1978 Patriots-Raiders game (the first game for Nick Lowery IIRC, and a few months after the preseason game between these two teams where Darryl Stingley got injured), a Broncos-Raiders game the following year and the 54-44 Steelers-Chargers game in 1985.
Last edited by Gary Najman on Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sheajets wrote:
I'm certain Harold Ballard must've done some things like that as owner of the leafs. I remember hearing he threw Foster Hewitt's famous broadcasting gondola in the MLG incinerator. Nothing was off limits for him to tarnish or destroy
That sort of thing wouldn't surprise me at all. He owned the CFL's Hamilton Tiger Cats from 1978-1989 but I've never heard of anything similar happening there. When Bob Ackles returned to the B.C. Lions in 2003 he found that much of the club's historical artifacts were missing. I remember seeing some neat stuff on eBay years ago that looked like it must have come from the Lions front office. I suspect those items got ransacked during the early 1990's when Murray Pezim owned the club.
Didn't Pezim marry for the 4th or 5th time with a young girl at the halftime of a BC Lions game at midfield in the BC Place Stadium? One anecdote I'm pretty sure I've heard of him is that he went to speak a banquet with very rich people (Pezim made much money in the mining industry) and was presented by a friend who said to the audience: "When I met Murray I had 40 million (Canadian) dollars...and now I only have 20 million".
JohnTurney wrote: So, once they get Kraft in, who else are they going to put in from current owners? Snyder? Doubt it. Lurie?
Daniel Snyder strikes me as about the last owner who should be getting in the HoF. I see him as being Bidwill/Ford/Spanos/Sullivan level of terrible. Non-competitive teams, contentious ownership style. Feel free to correct me if I’m missing something here.
Teo wrote:
One anecdote I'm pretty sure I've heard of him is that he went to speak a banquet with very rich people (Pezim made much money in the mining industry) and was presented by a friend who said to the audience: "When I met Murray I had 40 million (Canadian) dollars...and now I only have 20 million".
According to the SI Vault story it was Milton Berle who made that remark. I particularly liked what Don Rickles was quoted as saying at that 1988 Pezim roast:
"With that nose, as you breathe, my socks are coming up."
While I seriously doubt that Murray Pezim had any concern about preserving the history of his football club he does get credit for taking ownership of the Lions during a very dark period. Doug Flutie later signed in B.C. and by 1991 attendance had improved dramatically. Over 53,000 fans saw B.C. defeat the Toronto Argonauts in a game billed as "Flutie vs. The Rocket." On a Thursday night CBC prime time match up the Lions defeated Toronto 52-41 in overtime in a game that lasted nearly 4 hours. Afterwards Pezim took off his shirt and bared his 70 year old chest for all the world to see. Thankfully it was so late in the night most of North America had already gone to bed by that point.
JohnTurney wrote:People are free to disagree. I have my beliefs and reasons and info that have convinced me. DeBartolo, Jones, Bowlen, even Kraft, and others...IMO bought their way in. No big money not slots on Board of Directors. No spot on Board, no separate contributor category. Not special category, no way do they get in.
Yup. Maybe not 100% but close enough to how I see it and in my opinion, how it is.
The committee stuff always gets me, too. Which I've posted about in the past.
It's almost equal to puff pieces about Goodell defending him with hyping up how he's "grown the game", as if he raised it from the depths of an unknown niche sport. Or like when a voter is presenting a player 'in the room' and says a position (that long existed) was created for just for him or that he "changed the game" while proceeding to bring up something that existed before the player was even in the league.
"He created Sunday Night Football!" ... Welp, there you have it, football wasn't played on Sunday's before he came up with it, oh wait. Well it wasn't played in primetime, oh wait. Wasn't played on Sunday nights, oh wait. Well it wasn't NBC SNF and he singlehandedly created NBC, oh wait. Well it was his idea and he went to NBC with the SNF idea, oh wait. Well he singlehandly with no approval or input from anyone else got SNF on NBC, oh wait. And so on ... Even if we want to inaccurately give full credit, whoop-de-doo. Eventually SNF was going to move from cable to network anyway, no one was splitting any atoms on that idea/deal. As with most "he was on the [whatever] committee!" ideas/deals in modern times. Pretty basic business.
Or what about inducting Tom Benson (the late New Orleans Saints owner) on the base of:
-The Saints didn't had a winning season before he bought the team.
-He kept the Saints in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, and soon became Super Bowl Champions.
-Most important...he rebuilt old Fawcett Stadium adjacent to the Pro Football Hall of Fame and renamed it.
(I bet Peter KIng and co. already tought of these things for the near future).-
It's interesting that Benson gets credit for keeping the Saints in New Orleans. I remember him wanting to move to San Antonio permanently but got "push back." I searched Google to see if my memory is correct. This is the best I could find. Deadspin article has a lot of examples.
