Steve Young ranking during Super Bowl era

[Rupert Patrick]

Young started out slowly. His USFL numbers were not great, and his time in Tampa forgettable. He struggled or largely sat the bench for most of the first half of his career, but for most of eight seasons he was spectacular. How does that compare with other passers who would be Top 10 players?

Here are his USFL and NFL numbers:
https://www.statscrew.com/football/stats/p-youngste002

There is no parallel for Steve Young's career trajectory among Quarterbacks, but the closest might be Terry Bradshaw, in that Bradshaw started off awful and struggled and battled injuries for the first few years, and after losing his job for half a season, won two Super Bowls due largely to the team around him. He had a good year in 1975, but was injured in 1976 and struggled in 1977, but in 1978 it all came together. Bradshaw's peak was nowhere near the peak of Young, but Bradshaw became the textbook example of how it sometimes took years for a quarterback to mature into a superstar.
With Steve Young, it took him years to get a break, but one has to wonder how much of his success was due to the situation he inherited from Joe Montana. Montana's 1989 and 1990 seasons compare pretty well to what Young did under Seifert and then Mariucci.

[Bryan]

Young started out slowly. His USFL numbers were not great, and his time in Tampa forgettable. He struggled or largely sat the bench for most of the first half of his career, but for most of eight seasons he was spectacular. How does that compare with other passers who would be Top 10 players?

Here are his USFL and NFL numbers:
https://www.statscrew.com/football/stats/p-youngste002

There is no parallel for Steve Young's career trajectory among Quarterbacks, but the closest might be Terry Bradshaw, in that Bradshaw started off awful and struggled and battled injuries for the first few years, and after losing his job for half a season, won two Super Bowls due largely to the team around him. He had a good year in 1975, but was injured in 1976 and struggled in 1977, but in 1978 it all came together. Bradshaw's peak was nowhere near the peak of Young, but Bradshaw became the textbook example of how it sometimes took years for a quarterback to mature into a superstar.
With Steve Young, it took him years to get a break, but one has to wonder how much of his success was due to the situation he inherited from Joe Montana. Montana's 1989 and 1990 seasons compare pretty well to what Young did under Seifert and then Mariucci.

I think Young's career most resembles Staubach's in terms of trajectory. Instead of losing time due to military duty and backing up an incumbent starter, Young 'lost time' due to the Express/Bucs and backing up an incumbent starter (you can decide which fate was worse...military duty or Bucs). Young had 9 seasons where he started 10+ games, Staubach had 8. Both retired abruptly after having big seasons in their late 30's. Both could make plays with their legs. Both were regarded as great college QBs. Both were efficient and usually led the NFL in passer rating. Both inherited teams that were Super Bowl-made.

I think its interesting that the things Young is criticized for...taking over an already-great team, relatively short career....Staubach does not really receive the same criticism. Its hard to quantify Young's career. Even when considering his team and era, Young's efficiency numbers are off the charts. But what iconic moments did Young have? I can only remember three things...his 1987 run against the Vikings, a similar run he made a few years later against the Rams, and him throwing TDs against a clueless Chargers team in the Super Bowl. Staubach has so many memorable moments, and he also had a 'mystique' about him. I think there is an 'intangible' quality that Young lacks, and this (rightly or wrongly) hurts him in these 'best QB ever' lists.

[Rupert Patrick]

Young started out slowly. His USFL numbers were not great, and his time in Tampa forgettable. He struggled or largely sat the bench for most of the first half of his career, but for most of eight seasons he was spectacular. How does that compare with other passers who would be Top 10 players?

Here are his USFL and NFL numbers:
https://www.statscrew.com/football/stats/p-youngste002

There is no parallel for Steve Young's career trajectory among Quarterbacks, but the closest might be Terry Bradshaw, in that Bradshaw started off awful and struggled and battled injuries for the first few years, and after losing his job for half a season, won two Super Bowls due largely to the team around him. He had a good year in 1975, but was injured in 1976 and struggled in 1977, but in 1978 it all came together. Bradshaw's peak was nowhere near the peak of Young, but Bradshaw became the textbook example of how it sometimes took years for a quarterback to mature into a superstar.
With Steve Young, it took him years to get a break, but one has to wonder how much of his success was due to the situation he inherited from Joe Montana. Montana's 1989 and 1990 seasons compare pretty well to what Young did under Seifert and then Mariucci.

I think Young's career most resembles Staubach's in terms of trajectory. Instead of losing time due to military duty and backing up an incumbent starter, Young 'lost time' due to the Express/Bucs and backing up an incumbent starter (you can decide which fate was worse...military duty or Bucs). Young had 9 seasons where he started 10+ games, Staubach had 8. Both retired abruptly after having big seasons in their late 30's. Both could make plays with their legs. Both were regarded as great college QBs. Both were efficient and usually led the NFL in passer rating. Both inherited teams that were Super Bowl-made.

I think its interesting that the things Young is criticized for...taking over an already-great team, relatively short career....Staubach does not really receive the same criticism. Its hard to quantify Young's career. Even when considering his team and era, Young's efficiency numbers are off the charts. But what iconic moments did Young have? I can only remember three things...his 1987 run against the Vikings, a similar run he made a few years later against the Rams, and him throwing TDs against a clueless Chargers team in the Super Bowl. Staubach has so many memorable moments, and he also had a 'mystique' about him. I think there is an 'intangible' quality that Young lacks, and this (rightly or wrongly) hurts him in these 'best QB ever' lists.

I stand corrected on Young. A couple years ago I noticed the connection between Staubach and Young as similar physical types, both running QB's who got late starts and inherited successful systems and kept them running successfully.

[L.C. Greenwood]

Young started out slowly. His USFL numbers were not great, and his time in Tampa forgettable. He struggled or largely sat the bench for most of the first half of his career, but for most of eight seasons he was spectacular. How does that compare with other passers who would be Top 10 players?

Here are his USFL and NFL numbers:
https://www.statscrew.com/football/stats/p-youngste002

While Young had a vastly superior NFL career than Herschal Walker, both players may have better off spurning the USFL in terms of their NFL on-field production. The Bengals were going to draft Young, and he would have avoided the cesspool in Tampa Bay. Walker had monster years in the weaker USFL, but disappointed in the NFL.

[SixtiesFan]

Young started out slowly. His USFL numbers were not great, and his time in Tampa forgettable. He struggled or largely sat the bench for most of the first half of his career, but for most of eight seasons he was spectacular. How does that compare with other passers who would be Top 10 players?

Here are his USFL and NFL numbers:
https://www.statscrew.com/football/stats/p-youngste002

While Young had a vastly superior NFL career than Herschal Walker, both players may have better off spurning the USFL in terms of their NFL on-field production. The Bengals were going to draft Young, and he would have avoided the cesspool in Tampa Bay. Walker had monster years in the weaker USFL, but disappointed in the NFL.

Players tend to sign with a team (or league) that gives them the most money NOW. They generally don't consider whether the "situation" will be more favorable, just the money.

[preeths]

Young started out slowly. His USFL numbers were not great, and his time in Tampa forgettable. He struggled or largely sat the bench for most of the first half of his career, but for most of eight seasons he was spectacular. How does that compare with other passers who would be Top 10 players?

Here are his USFL and NFL numbers:
https://www.statscrew.com/football/stats/p-youngste002

While Young had a vastly superior NFL career than Herschal Walker, both players may have better off spurning the USFL in terms of their NFL on-field production. The Bengals were going to draft Young, and he would have avoided the cesspool in Tampa Bay. Walker had monster years in the weaker USFL, but disappointed in the NFL.

Players tend to sign with a team (or league) that gives them the most money NOW. They generally don't consider whether the "situation" will be more favorable, just the money.

Yep, and the Bengals had more than one shot at talking Young out of the USFL deal and wouldn't commit to even competitive money. Walker didn't want to wait another year and risk another injury before joining the NFL. He didn't have the option of an NFL deal in 1983. It's possible, of course, that both players may have put up better numbers by starting their careers in the NFL, but it's also possible that Young's early struggles would have spelled an faster end to his career or that Walker would have had to play behind a poor offensive line for several seasons or suffered another injury in his senior season.

[Rupert Patrick]

Yep, and the Bengals had more than one shot at talking Young out of the USFL deal and wouldn't commit to even competitive money. Walker didn't want to wait another year and risk another injury before joining the NFL. He didn't have the option of an NFL deal in 1983. It's possible, of course, that both players may have put up better numbers by starting their careers in the NFL, but it's also possible that Young's early struggles would have spelled an faster end to his career or that Walker would have had to play behind a poor offensive line for several seasons or suffered another injury in his senior season.

I've always felt that Walker's joining the USFL cost him a spot in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I think had he entered the NFL in 1984, he would have been one of those guys that, barring injury, would have been hugely successful regardless of where he had wound up. New England would have had the top pick in the 1984 Draft and there was enough talent on that team that would have allowed him to flourish, to reach his full potential. He would have been handed the torch that went from Jim Brown to Simpson to Campbell, as a once in a generation type runner, the likes of which pro football had never seen before. I've watched a lot of college running backs, and still think Walker is the best total package I've ever seen, and probably the closest thing we'll ever see to another Jim Brown. But the USFL messed it all up, where he was successful there, and he went to Dallas where he was put with Dorsett instead of being put with a team where he should have been the feature back, and his talent was squandered.

[ChrisBabcock]

I've always felt that Walker's joining the USFL cost him a spot in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

I agree with this statement completely and I think I've said it before here somewhere. (that old "your unpopular opinions" thread?) If you look at his entire career output and remove the "team" and "league" column from the table and just look at it as a whole, you have slam dunk HOF numbers. The unknown though is would his USFL performance be similar if he were in the NFL? Possibly not due to the obviously higher level of competition.

[Bryan]

I've always felt that Walker's joining the USFL cost him a spot in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I think had he entered the NFL in 1984, he would have been one of those guys that, barring injury, would have been hugely successful regardless of where he had wound up. New England would have had the top pick in the 1984 Draft and there was enough talent on that team that would have allowed him to flourish, to reach his full potential. He would have been handed the torch that went from Jim Brown to Simpson to Campbell, as a once in a generation type runner, the likes of which pro football had never seen before. I've watched a lot of college running backs, and still think Walker is the best total package I've ever seen, and probably the closest thing we'll ever see to another Jim Brown. But the USFL messed it all up, where he was successful there, and he went to Dallas where he was put with Dorsett instead of being put with a team where he should have been the feature back, and his talent was squandered.

I agree with this statement completely and I think I've said it before here somewhere. (that old "your unpopular opinions" thread?) If you look at his entire career output and remove the "team" and "league" column from the table and just look at it as a whole, you have slam dunk HOF numbers. The unknown though is would his USFL performance be similar if he were in the NFL? Possibly not due to the obviously higher level of competition.

I don't think Walker makes the PFHOF. He was big and fast enough to be productive in the NFL, he had great balance, but he wasn't elusive. Walker was a great RB in college because he could run over people and then outrun the rest to the endzone (like Ron Dayne), and he kind of did the same thing in the USFL. I remember one play where Walker had his momentum stopped after running over a pile of Michigan Panther defenders, it looks like safety David Greenwood will tackle Walker from behind, but somehow Walker immediately accelerates away from Greenwood and in a space of 20 yards Walker is already 10 yards ahead of Greenwood. It was very OJ Simpson-like, but it also was the USFL. Guys like Kevin Long and Tim Spencer were 1000-yard RBs. Kelvin Bryant was one of the best players in league history. David Greenwood was an all-USFL safety who didn't have the athleticism to produce in the NFL.

Walker had one big season in the NFL (1988), and even that was a grind-it-out year with a decent 4.2 average on 361 carries and only 5 TDs. It seemed like Walker was most effective catching short passes, where he could then use his straight-line speed and size to get extra yardage. I just don't see how the USFL 'robbed' Walker of a PFHOF spot when he entered the NFL at age 24, unless the argument is that Walker was too beat up from carrying the ball so much in the USFL...but Walker was such a unique athlete that he lasted 13 years in the NFL. I'm not sure if 'durability' is what prevented Walker from achieving the same level of NFL success that he had in the USFL. To me, it just seemed like he wasn't that devastating of a RB in the NFL. In 187 games, Walker had 18 100-yard performances, or one less than Joe Morris.

[Rupert Patrick]

I don't think Walker makes the PFHOF. He was big and fast enough to be productive in the NFL, he had great balance, but he wasn't elusive. Walker was a great RB in college because he could run over people and then outrun the rest to the endzone (like Ron Dayne), and he kind of did the same thing in the USFL. I remember one play where Walker had his momentum stopped after running over a pile of Michigan Panther defenders, it looks like safety David Greenwood will tackle Walker from behind, but somehow Walker immediately accelerates away from Greenwood and in a space of 20 yards Walker is already 10 yards ahead of Greenwood. It was very OJ Simpson-like, but it also was the USFL. Guys like Kevin Long and Tim Spencer were 1000-yard RBs. Kelvin Bryant was one of the best players in league history. David Greenwood was an all-USFL safety who didn't have the athleticism to produce in the NFL.

Walker had one big season in the NFL (1988), and even that was a grind-it-out year with a decent 4.2 average on 361 carries and only 5 TDs. It seemed like Walker was most effective catching short passes, where he could then use his straight-line speed and size to get extra yardage. I just don't see how the USFL 'robbed' Walker of a PFHOF spot when he entered the NFL at age 24, unless the argument is that Walker was too beat up from carrying the ball so much in the USFL...but Walker was such a unique athlete that he lasted 13 years in the NFL. I'm not sure if 'durability' is what prevented Walker from achieving the same level of NFL success that he had in the USFL. To me, it just seemed like he wasn't that devastating of a RB in the NFL. In 187 games, Walker had 18 100-yard performances, or one less than Joe Morris.

What I was trying to say was that when Walker got to the NFL, instead of going to a team that needed a running back to build the team around, he went to a team that already had a star running back, and he had to share duties with the aging Dorsett, who rushed 184 times for a 4.1 average to Walker's superior 151 and 4.9 average per rush. By 1986, Tom Landry was not the Landry of 1976 or 1966, or else he would have come up with a scheme to make Walker the centerpiece of his offense and benched or traded Dorsett upon getting Walker. Walker would have gotten that support in New England in 1984, and would have been an All Pro as a rookie. I don't think he would have had a long career like Payton, but more likely a shorter but brilliant career along the lines of Simpson and Campbell where he would have been overworked until he inevitably broke down. Walker would have been successful as a Marcus Allen - Roger Craig type RB who caught a lot of short passes, but again, as the main cog in the wheel, not one of the spokes.