Professional Football Researchers Association Forum
PFRA is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the history of professional football. Formed in 1979, PFRA members include many of the game's foremost historians and writers.
sheajets wrote:How incredible is it that between 1980 and 2012, 32 years, the Lions basically had just two kickers. (2012 Dave Rayner kicked for them 1/2 a season while Hanson was hurt, and I vaguely remember Bob Thomas kicking for the Lions back in the 80s for a hot second. Not counting whatever scab kicker they had) but Murray/Hanson were the mainstays.
With some cameo appearances in between, the Browns had an incredible run with kickers for their original era
1946-59, 1961-67 Lou Groza
1960 Sam Baker
1968-80 Don Cockroft
1981 Dave Jacobs
1981-89 Matt Bahr
1990 Jerry Kauric
1991-95 Matt Stover
Indicative of the Browns' luck, Bahr won a Super Bowl ring before he got to the team, then was picked up by the Giants in 1990--in time to win another ring.
sheajets wrote:How incredible is it that between 1980 and 2012, 32 years, the Lions basically had just two kickers. (2012 Dave Rayner kicked for them 1/2 a season while Hanson was hurt, and I vaguely remember Bob Thomas kicking for the Lions back in the 80s for a hot second. Not counting whatever scab kicker they had) but Murray/Hanson were the mainstays.
With some cameo appearances in between, the Browns had an incredible run with kickers for their original era
1946-59, 1961-67 Lou Groza
1960 Sam Baker
1968-80 Don Cockroft
1981 Dave Jacobs
1981-89 Matt Bahr
1990 Jerry Kauric
1991-95 Matt Stover
Indicative of the Browns' luck, Bahr won a Super Bowl ring before he got to the team, then was picked up by the Giants in 1990--in time to win another ring.
You also have to remember that when Bahr replaced Jacobs in 1981 he already had played for the eventual Super Bowl champions 49ers when Ray Wersching was injured.
One thing I remember about Dave Jacobs and his brief career was that he was one of the tiniest human beings I've ever seen in uniform on a football field. Listed at 5'7 150...I swear that must've been put out by a sympathetic team doctor because he looked about 5'5 and under 140. He looked tinier than a high school football player
Bob Matheson appears to be laughing here as Jacobs attempts to throw what I assume was a blocked kick
sheajets wrote:One thing I remember about Dave Jacobs and his brief career was that he was one of the tiniest human beings I've ever seen in uniform on a football field. Listed at 5'7 150...I swear that must've been put out by a sympathetic team doctor because he looked about 5'5 and under 140. He looked tinier than a high school football player
Bob Matheson appears to be laughing here as Jacobs attempts to throw what I assume was a blocked kick
I remember that Jacobs was drafted by the Broncos in the last round of the 1979 NFL Draft and couldn't beat veteran Jim Turner. After his stints with the Jets and Browns, he played some games for the New Jersey Generals of the USFL in 1983, serving also as the punter. In 1987 he was with the Philadelphia Eagles replacement team, also with P/K double duty (they had journeyman Guido Merkens as a quarterback who also punted when he was with the Saints). He finished his pro career the next year with the Arena Football League's New England Steamrollers.
Tommy Davis was a player Dr. Z liked for HoF consideration. If memory serves, his observations include the idea that Davis's accomplishments were especially remarkable given that his home stadiums, Candlestick Park and Kezar Stadium, were notable for swirling winds. I can see two things in his favor:
-he looks to have had an extremely high average yards per punt. Looking at the career leaders in this category for pre-21st century punters, he ranks second (44.7) behind only HoFer Sammy Baugh (45.1). HoFer Yale Lary is third at 44.3.
-he was deadly accurate on XPTs, missing only two during his career. He held the record for consecutive XPTs (with 234 made) for 32 years.
His FG pct. however appears to have been pretty ordinary, about like Pat Summerall, Paul Hornung, and Jim Martin.
sheajets wrote:Also maybe add Matt Bahr for K? Lord knows kicking in Cleveland, Foxboro, and the old Meadowlands (where the winds REALLY swirled unlike Metlife Stadium) weren't easy. But for his era he was pretty steady, reliable and played forever.
Fred Cox...lean no. Always seemed kind of middling to me. Didn't really have a strong leg.
Eddie Murray perhaps for HOVG?
In the plus column for Cox, IMO, is the flat top, the single bar face mask (both common for kickers of his ear) and that he is credited with inventing the Nerf football. YMMV.
bachslunch wrote:Tommy Davis was a player Dr. Z liked for HoF consideration. If memory serves, his observations include the idea that Davis's accomplishments were especially remarkable given that his home stadiums, Candlestick Park and Kezar Stadium, were notable for swirling winds. I can see two things in his favor:
-he looks to have had an extremely high average yards per punt. Looking at the career leaders in this category for pre-21st century punters, he ranks second (44.7) behind only HoFer Sammy Baugh (45.1). HoFer Yale Lary is third at 44.3.
-he was deadly accurate on XPTs, missing only two during his career. He held the record for consecutive XPTs (with 234 made) for 32 years.
His FG pct. however appears to have been pretty ordinary, about like Pat Summerall, Paul Hornung, and Jim Martin.
Davis' only two XP misses both came on the road and his FG percentage was 54 percent at Kezar (he never kicked at Candlestick), compared to just 41 percent on the road. Oddly, he had 250 career FG attempts: 125 at home, 125 on the road.
His two XP misses: the first 12/12/65 at Chicago, otherwise known as the slopfest where Gale Sayers scored six touchdowns. His other came the following year in Atlanta in the third quarter of a 44-7 rout--no weather excuses this time.
Punting average has been pretty steadily increasing since 1977. There have been a couple dips, between 1985 and 1986, and between 1998 and 2002, but it has gone from about 38.4 yards per punt in 1977 to 45.4 in 2016. Of the top 11 single season yards per punt seasons, nine of them are by punters who were active in 2016, and 20 of the top 25 all time yards per punt seasons have occurred since 2007. One has to wonder the reason for the increase, if it is due to the fact that punters just punt full time, or a combination of improved conditioning and medical innovations, or a combination thereof. I often have people tell me they would never let their sons play football, and I always tell them if their kids have an interest in it, try to steer them toward being a kicker or punter. They suffer the least wear and tear and minimal risk of concussions.
"Every time you lose, you die a little bit. You die inside. Not all your organs, maybe just your liver." - George Allen
Rupert Patrick wrote:
Punting average has been pretty steadily increasing since 1977. There have been a couple dips, between 1985 and 1986, and between 1998 and 2002, but it has gone from about 38.4 yards per punt in 1977 to 45.4 in 2016.
Ithink the net punting average the last 2-3 years, league-wide is 40....the jump is as steady as kicking has been
