Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

luckyshow wrote:I'd mention Ken Strong, if solely because he was the first kicking specialist, once held record for longevity and was instrumental in getting the limited substitution rules changed to allow for the kicking specialist (making place-kicking more automatic, but that's another topic)

Also, wasn't Paul Horning a punter and place-kicker, as well as running back?

horning did some placekicking but I do not believe he did any punting

JWL wrote:

luckyshow wrote:I'd mention Ken Strong, if solely because he was the first kicking specialist, once held record for longevity and was instrumental in getting the limited substitution rules changed to allow for the kicking specialist (making place-kicking more automatic, but that's another topic)

Also, wasn't Paul Horning a punter and place-kicker, as well as running back?

horning did some placekicking but I do not believe he did any punting

Right. While Hornung was with the Packers, the punters were Dick Deschaine, Max McGee, Boyd Dowler, Jerry Norton, Don Chandler, and Donny Anderson. Hornung's last year as a kicker was 1964, when he had a terrible season kicking after his one-year suspension.

rhickok1109 wrote:Hornung's last year as a kicker was 1964, when he had a terrible season kicking after his one-year suspension.

In the event you need any evidence (note the massive irony at the end):

FG attempts
0-19 yards: 3 of 7
20-29 yards: 5 of 9
30-39 yards: 1 of 10
40-49 yards: 2 of 11
50+ yards: 1 of 1

He also missed two extra points

BD Sullivan wrote:

rhickok1109 wrote:Hornung's last year as a kicker was 1964, when he had a terrible season kicking after his one-year suspension.

In the event you need any evidence (note the massive irony at the end):

FG attempts
0-19 yards: 3 of 7
20-29 yards: 5 of 9
30-39 yards: 1 of 10
40-49 yards: 2 of 11
50+ yards: 1 of 1

He also missed two extra points

Hornung's kicking cost the Packers the 1964 Western Division title.

In week 2, he missed 32 and 46 yard FG's, the Packers lost to the Colts 21-20.
In week 4 the Pack lost to Minnesota 24-23 but Hornung did not attempt a FG.
In week 5, he missed a 15-yarder and had a 36-yard FG blocked, losing to the Colts again 24-21.
In week 6, he missed five FG's, and the Packers lost to the Rams 27-17, the misses were from 46, 43, 17 and 33, and there was a block from 46.
In week 10, Green Bay lost to the 49ers 24-14, but Hornung missed four FG's. The kicks were from 43, 38 and 17 yards and a FG from 34 was blocked.
In week 14, the Packers and Rams tied 24-24, and Hornung missed three FG's. They were from 43 and 13 yards, and a FG attempt from 28 was blocked.

Reconstructing the season, let's presume that Hornung hits one of the FG's in Week 2 to beat the Colts. Week 4 the Packers lost without a FG attempt, so we'll leave that as is. Week 5, Hornung hits the 15-yarder but the 36-yarder still gets blocked, and the Colts and Packers tie 24-24. It is doubtful that Hornung hits five FG's to beat the Rams in Week 6, or that Hornung nails four FG's to beat the 49ers in Week 10, so we'll leave those as losses. However, in Week 14, Hornung was able to hit on one of the three misses to win the game. The Packers improve by two games in the process, turning a loss into a win, turning a tie into a win and turning a loss into a tie. Their record improves from 8-5-1 to 10-3-1. Baltimore, on the other hand, drops from 12-2-0 to 10-3-1 because their two victories to Green Bay turn into a loss and a tie. As a result, Green Bay would win the 1964 Western Division on a tiebreaker.

Reaser wrote:

ChrisBabcock wrote:It's easy to forget how good Jason Hanson was being mired on horrible Lions teams most of his career.

He was also a great punter in high school (and punted at WSU) ... Not sure what it is about the Greater Spokane League (GSL) but they know how to kick over there.

Elevation? - 1842 feet above sea level. (Not Denver - 5130-5690' - but I am sure it does help).

[quote="Rupert Patrick]The Packers improve by two games in the process, turning a loss into a win, turning a tie into a win and turning a loss into a tie. Their record improves from 8-5-1 to 10-3-1. Baltimore, on the other hand, drops from 12-2-0 to 10-3-1 because their two victories to Green Bay turn into a loss and a tie. As a result, Green Bay would win the 1964 Western Division on a tiebreaker.[/quote]

I like all the analysis, but the last statement, about winning on a tiebreaker, couldn't be right, because they didn't use tiebreakers in 1964. If the Packers and Colts had finished tied, they would've had a playoff game, just as they did in 1965. (Coincidentally, didn't they both finish 10-3-1 that year?)

TodMaher wrote:Elevation? - 1842 feet above sea level. (Not Denver - 5130-5690' - but I am sure it does help).

That makes sense, at least for their high school careers. Rehkow's 67-yard FG was at Joe Albi Stadium (hosted NFL pre-season games) in Spokane.

Though, Jason Hanson and Mike Hollis both ended up in the NFL, and Rehkow would be a safe bet to be in the league within the next two years so they can kick (or punt, respectively) wherever.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote:

rhickok1109 wrote:Hornung's last year as a kicker was 1964, when he had a terrible season kicking after his one-year suspension.

In the event you need any evidence (note the massive irony at the end):

FG attempts
0-19 yards: 3 of 7
20-29 yards: 5 of 9
30-39 yards: 1 of 10
40-49 yards: 2 of 11
50+ yards: 1 of 1

He also missed two extra points

Hornung's kicking cost the Packers the 1964 Western Division title.

Green Bay would win the 1964 Western Division on a tiebreaker.

Which sends them to Cleveland, where they most likely win. They had beaten the Browns in Milwaukee in Week 11, and had even beaten them in the previous year's Playoff Bowl, despite Lombardi's disdain for playing in a "rinky-dink bowl game." In fact, Lombardi never lost to the Browns as Packers' coach, going 5-0 in official games. His only loss to them was a Week 2 game during his only season with the Skins in 1969.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote:

rhickok1109 wrote:Hornung's last year as a kicker was 1964, when he had a terrible season kicking after his one-year suspension.

In the event you need any evidence (note the massive irony at the end):

FG attempts
0-19 yards: 3 of 7
20-29 yards: 5 of 9
30-39 yards: 1 of 10
40-49 yards: 2 of 11
50+ yards: 1 of 1

He also missed two extra points

Hornung's kicking cost the Packers the 1964 Western Division title.

In week 2, he missed 32 and 46 yard FG's, the Packers lost to the Colts 21-20.
In week 4 the Pack lost to Minnesota 24-23 but Hornung did not attempt a FG.
In week 5, he missed a 15-yarder and had a 36-yard FG blocked, losing to the Colts again 24-21.
In week 6, he missed five FG's, and the Packers lost to the Rams 27-17, the misses were from 46, 43, 17 and 33, and there was a block from 46.
In week 10, Green Bay lost to the 49ers 24-14, but Hornung missed four FG's. The kicks were from 43, 38 and 17 yards and a FG from 34 was blocked.
In week 14, the Packers and Rams tied 24-24, and Hornung missed three FG's. They were from 43 and 13 yards, and a FG attempt from 28 was blocked.

Reconstructing the season, let's presume that Hornung hits one of the FG's in Week 2 to beat the Colts. Week 4 the Packers lost without a FG attempt, so we'll leave that as is. Week 5, Hornung hits the 15-yarder but the 36-yarder still gets blocked, and the Colts and Packers tie 24-24. It is doubtful that Hornung hits five FG's to beat the Rams in Week 6, or that Hornung nails four FG's to beat the 49ers in Week 10, so we'll leave those as losses. However, in Week 14, Hornung was able to hit on one of the three misses to win the game. The Packers improve by two games in the process, turning a loss into a win, turning a tie into a win and turning a loss into a tie. Their record improves from 8-5-1 to 10-3-1. Baltimore, on the other hand, drops from 12-2-0 to 10-3-1 because their two victories to Green Bay turn into a loss and a tie. As a result, Green Bay would win the 1964 Western Division on a tiebreaker.

I blogged about this in July and came out with a slightly different end...https://packerspastperfect.wordpress.co ... -disaster/

There was a joke in Green Bay that someone put a pistol in Hornung's locker after one of his misses cost the team a game. Hornung found it and was holding it to his head. Lombardi saw him and shouted, "No, Paul, don't do it!"

Jimmy Taylor, sitting at the next locker, said, "Don't worry, coach, he'll miss."